Lucy & Desi: Unconditional Love – Part 1

“At the core, it’s all about unconditional love,” Lucie Arnaz Luckinbill said of her parents’ relationship. But Lucy and Desi’s story was also that of two people who, together, pushed boundaries, built their own empire, and ultimately changed the face of television.

In part 1 of this special 2-part episode on Lucy and Desi, you’ll hear about the two tragedies that impacted Lucy’s childhood, the story of how Lucy and Desi met, what it took to convince the TV execs to cast Desi as Lucy’s husband in I Love Lucy, and so much more. As an added bonus, featured in this episode are audio clips from Carrie and Jeff Ketterman, the husband and wife comedy team who have created their own Lucy and Desi tribute show. 

If you didn’t already love Lucy, you will by the end of this episode!

Show Notes for Episode 31!

Lucy & Desi Kissing – Getty Images, Family Photo – Getty Images (from Country Living Article), Lucy & Desi on set in front of Trailer circa 1950 – Getty Images (from Country Living article), Lucy with second husband Gary Morton – Getty Images, The Kennedy Center Honors Lucille Ball –, Amy Pohler & Lucie Arnaz Luckinbill – Insider

Photo Gallery courtesy of Carrie & Jeff Ketterman


Audio clips from Carrie and Jeff Ketterman, 2022

Lucy and Desi, the documentary directed by Amy Pohler, 2022

Archive of American Television: Lucie Arnaz on what her parents were like when she was growing up, August 19, 2016

“How Lucy and Desi Changed TV With Desilu Productions,” Biography, December 7, 2021

“Lucille Ball’s daughter says her mother ‘never thought of herself as a feminist’ and ‘hated every minute’ of running her production studio,” Insider, March 4, 2022

 “Review: Amy Poehler’s ‘Lucy and Desi’ is an absorbing look at their complex lives,” Los Angeles Times, by Gary Goldstein, March 3, 2022

“Lucille Ball’s 2nd Husband Gary Morton Claimed to Have Never Seen ‘I Love Lucy,’” Showbiz Cheatsheet, by Lou Haviland, November 7, 2021

“A Look Back at Lucy and Desi’s Turbulent Love Story,” Country Living, by Maria Carter, March 1, 2017

Wikipedia: The Long, Long Trailer

“‘Lucy and Desi’ Review: Amy Poehler’s Documentary Captures the Complex Love Story of Being Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz,” Variety, by Owen Gleiberman, January 28, 2022

“How Lucille Ball Said Goodbye to Desi Arnaz Days Before He Died: ‘They Loved Each Other Until the End,’” People, by Liz McNeil and Benjamin Van Hoose, February 23, 2022

“Lucille Ball’s legendary interview show comes to SiriusXM,” Spectrum News1, by David Mendez, August 4, 2021

“The Most Shocking Secret About ‘I Love Lucy’ Stars Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz’s Marriage,” Good Housekeeping, by Katherine Tinsley, December 26, 2021

“Lucy’s Radio Career,” Everything Lucille Ball (site), 2017

Wikipedia: Lucille Ball

“Gary Morton, 74, Producer for Lucille Ball,” The New York Times, by Reuters, April 1, 1999


Video courtesy of Carrie & Jeff Ketterman
Video courtesy of Carrie & Jeff Ketterman
Video courtesy of Carrie & Jeff Ketterman

Carrie & Jeff Ketterman website & upcoming Events 

– May 19th Shelbyville Campus in Lousiville for Lucy Week Show at 6:30

-June 11th Tribute Show at Red Skelton Festival in Vincennes, IN 

– June 24th Tribute Show in Madison, IN 6 & 8pm

Betty White: Thank You for Being a Friend

Betty White, beloved actress, comedian, and a woman who truly was older than sliced bread, passed away on New Year’s Eve of 2021, just a few weeks shy of her 100th birthday.

‘First woman of television,’ shameless flirt, ardent animal advocate… Betty was all this and so much more. Join us as we discuss the life and legacy of Betty White, and also dig into the rumored conflict with one of her Golden Girls costars.

Thank you for being a friend, Betty! We miss you already.

Show Notes for Episode 30!

Photo creds: 
Top Row: L to R: Betty in the early years:, Betty and Alan: New York Times, Golden Girls photo: People; Bottom Row: L to R: Betty and dog: New York Post, Proposal costars:, One of Betty White’s final photos: Today Show


“Betty White Thanks Fans for Their ‘Love and Support’ in Final Video Before Her Death,” People, by Dory Jackson, January 21, 2022

“Celebrating Betty White: America’s Golden Girl’, NBC, January 31, 2022

“The Story Behind Betty White and Bea Arthur’s Infamous Feud,” Country Living, by Maria Carter, September 22, 2017

“The Truth About Betty White and The Golden Girls: How the Beloved TV Best Friends Really Got Along,” E News, by Natalie Finn, December 31, 2021

“20 of Betty White’s Best (and Funniest!) Quotes,” People, by Alex Heigl, December 31, 2021

“Betty White Dies: The Golden Girls and Mary Tyler Moore Show Star Was 99,” People, by Stephen M. Silverman, December 31, 2021

“Betty White dies at 99: Here are some of her greatest career moments,” USA Today, by Asha C. Gilbert, December 31, 2021

“Betty White, a Television Golden Girl From the Start, Is Dead at 99,” The New York Times, by Richard Severo and Peter Keepnews, December 31, 2021

“18 things you probably didn’t know about the late Betty White,” Insider, by Acuna, Singh, and Grindell, December 31, 2021


“Golden Girls” Remix Ashley mentions in the episode

Betty as “Sue Ann” on “The Mary Tyler Moore Show”
Betty White Snickers Commercial
Language Warning! But a great example of Betty “playing” to the audience during a live taping
Clip from the dramatic Role Ashley references during the episode

Cher’s tribute to Betty on the special that aired after her passing

Marilyn: The Blonde Bombshell’s Mysterious Death

CW: Adult themes/descriptions of violence

Although often stereotyped as the ‘dumb blonde’ character, Marilyn Monroe was actually a complicated woman who overcame a traumatic childhood, studied acting with Lee Strasberg, co-founded her own production company, and formed relationships with a number of high-profile, powerful men. 

Sadly, Marilyn’s promising career was cut short in 1962 when she was found dead, nude in her bed with a telephone receiver in hand, the victim of an apparent overdose. She was only 36. 

But was Marilyn’s death really the result of an overdose and ‘probable suicide,’ as the coroner declared at that time? Or was Marilyn intentionally silenced, as many did and still believe, including her close friend Frank Sinatra?

Show Notes for Episode 29!


“Happy Birthday, Mr. President” – Source: The Guardian

Marilyn with her costars Jack Lemmon (Standing) and Tony Curtis (seated) in ‘Some Like It Hot”
Source: The New York Times



Footage from “Something’s Got to Give”

“Be Kind, Rewind” Episode Ashley references

“Happy Birthday, Mr. President”

’Paul is Dead’…or Is He?

In 2009, Time magazine included ‘Paul Is Dead’ in its article about the top 10 most enduring conspiracy theories. What’s more, ‘Paul Is Dead’ is widely considered to be the most famous of all music conspiracy theories. 

In 1969 stories began to circulate that Paul McCartney was killed in a car accident in 1966 and subsequently replaced by a look-alike in order to protect and continue the Beatles phenomenon. The ‘Paul Is Dead’ rumor was fed by clues fans believed to be purposely placed in Beatles songs and album artwork.

Despite refutation from Paul and other Beatles members, the theory has endured for more than 50 years. In this listener choice episode, Candy and Ashley discuss the evidence used to support the ‘Paul Is Dead’ conspiracy theory and weigh in with their opinions.

Where do YOU stand? Paul is dead… or is he?

Show Notes for Episode 28!

Beatles’ Abbey Road Cover

‘Life’ issue in which Paul rebutted rumor

First Article Mentioning the Theory


“Get Back” documentary on Disney+

“Is Beatle Paul McCartney Dead?” Drake Times-Delphic, vol. 88, no. 02, by Tim Harper, September 17, 1969 

‘Paul is Dead’: the Bizarre Story of Music Most Notorious Conspiracy Theory, Rolling Stone, by Rob Sheffield         

“The 70 Greatest Conspiracy Theories in Pop-Culture History,” Vulture, by Adam K. Raymond, October 23, 2016

“‘Paul is Dead’: A Beatles Secret Message in an Album Cover?” BBC, by Christian Blauvelt, August 6, 2018

Wikipedia: Paul is Live

“Sgt. Pepper’s Iconic Photos Reveal OPP Badge on Paul McCartney’s Uniform,” Toronto Star, by Trish Crawford, January 18, 2016

Wikipedia: Paul is Dead
“Inside John Lennon and Paul McCartney’s ‘Irreplaceable’ Bond–and Epic Fall Out,” Biography, by Rachel Chang, October 14, 2020

Natalie Wood’s Mysterious Death: Accident or Foul Play?

CW: Themes/descriptions of violence

Over 40 years ago Natalie Wood was found floating in the water off the coast of Catalina Island, wearing a flannel nightgown, socks, and a down jacket. Her death was widely believed to be a tragic accident that occurred because of her drunken state. 

However, in 2013 new information about suspicious circumstances led the cause of death to be changed from “accidental drowning” to “drowning and other undetermined factors.” And a 2018 press conference revealed not only that new witness testimony had come to light, but also that Natalie’s husband, Robert Wagner, was now officially considered “a person of interest” in her death. Yet as of this moment, Natalie’s case remains open, her death still a mystery. 

This fascinating episode takes a look at the tragic loss of Natalie Wood and considers the question ‘Was it an accident or foul play?’

Show Notes for Episode 27!

Natalie Wood (age 14) posing for a portrait in her home in 1952
Frank Worth, Capital Art Getty Images
Natalie Wood and Robert Wagner aboard the Splendour


Wikipedia: West Side Story (1961 film)

“What Really Happened to Natalie Wood?” Town and Country, by Nancy Bilyeau, May 5, 2020

“40 Years Later, the Mystery Over Natalie Wood’s Death Endures,” Los Angeles Times, November 30, 2021

“Natalie Wood’s Sister Lana Fights for Truth of Her Mysterious Death: ‘Still a Long Way to Go,’” USA Today, by David Oliver, November 9, 2021

“Natalie Wood’s Sister Says Christopher Walken Spoke to Detectives Working Her Reopened Case, But Made Them Promise Not to Reveal What He Said,” Insider, by Erin Snodgrass, November 18, 2021

“Natalie Wood’s Sister: ‘Of Course’ Robert Wagner Killed Her,” New York Post, by Raquel Laneri, November 4, 2021


Natalie Wood in the ending scene from “Miracle on 34th Street”

Natalie Wood & James Dean in a scene from “Rebel Without A Cause”

Natalie Wood in the ‘bathtub scene’ from “Splendor in the Grass”

Natalie Wood in “West Side Story” singing “Tonight” in her own voice

Bernie Tiede: Most Loved Murderer

CW: Themes/descriptions of violence

Question: What self-confessed murderer can boast a fan club in his honor, a movie centered around his murder case, and a Facebook fan page with over 1,700 followers?

Answer: Bernie Tiede, the man portrayed by Jack Black in the 2012 movie ‘Bernie,’ who murdered Marjorie Nugent in 1996 and managed to hide her body in a freezer for 9 months before his crime was discovered. 

Hear all about Bernie Tiede, “the most loved murderer,” in episode 26, and consider for yourself whether this was cold-blooded murder or an uncontrollable act triggered by Marjorie’s abuse.

Show Notes for Episode 26!

Shirley MacLaine and Jack Black recreating a cruise pose
Bernie and Marjorie
Source: Texas Monthly


“The Mortician, the Murder, the Movie,” 48 Hours, CBS News, by Peter Van Sant, July 22, 2017

“Midnight in the Garden of East Texas,” Texas Monthly, by Skip Hollingsworth, January 1998

“Richard Linklater on Living With Bernie Tiede,” Variety, by Justin Chang, June 25, 2014

“Judge Agrees to Release Murderer ‘Bernie’ Backed by Austin Filmmaker,” The Texas Tribune, by Brandi Grissom, May 6, 2014


“Bernie” Film (free with commercials)

Adrienne Shelly: So Much Left to Do

CW: Themes/descriptions of violence

Adrienne Shelly had everything to live for in October of 2006. Her filmmaking career was taking off, her film ‘Waitress’ had a great chance of winning a spot at the Sundance Festival, and she loved being a wife and mother. So when her husband found her hanging from a shower rod on November 1, he knew she hadn’t done this to herself, no matter what the detectives said. 

As it turned out, he was right. 

In episode 25 Candy and Ashley explore the mysterious death of actress and filmmaker Adrienne Shelly, and her husband’s quest to not only discover what really happened but to also ensure that Adrienne is remembered as the strong, incredible woman she was, not as a victim.

Show Notes for Episode 25!

Top Left: Sophie, Adrienne, and Andy the night before her murder at their Halloween party (, Adrienne (The Daily, Adrienne & Sophie (, Adrienne (, Bottom Left: Adrienne, Cheryl Hines, Kerri Russell in “Waitress” ( Top Right: Documentary One Sheet for “Adrienne: So Many Stories Left to Tell,” Broadway publicity still from the musical “Waitress” Starring Jessie Mueller ( Adrienne & Andy (


“The Heartbreaking True Story of Murdered Actress Adrienne Shelly –and How Her Legacy Lives On With Hit Broadway Musical Waitress, People, by K.C. Baker, updated May 4, 2016

“Adrienne Shelly’s Widower Confronts Her Killer in New Doc,” New York Times, by Jane Ridley, November 30, 2021

“Murdered Waitress Actress Adrienne Shelly’s Husband on Her Legacy for Daughter, People, by K.C. Baker, updated May 5, 2016

“‘Adrienne’ HBO Documentary Explores Incredible Career and Tragic Death of ‘Waitress’ Filmmaker Adrienne Shelly,’ Forbes, by Risa Sarachan, November 29, 2021

“‘She’s More Than Just a Murder Victim’: The Life and Death of Film-Maker Adrienne Shelly,” The Guardian, by Adrian Horton, December 1, 2021

Wikipedia– Adrienne Shelly

IMDB– ‘Waitress’
Wikipedia– ‘Waitress


A scene from “Waitress”
“Waitress” Movie Trailer
Adrienne shares her inspiration for writing “Waitress”

Adrienne: Documentary Trailer

Stalked: The Rebecca Schaeffer Story

CW: Themes/descriptions of violence

When 21-year-old Rebecca Schaeffer (previous star of “My Sister Sam”) opened her door on July 18, 1989, she expected to see a courier delivering the ‘Godfather 3’ script she needed for her exciting upcoming audition. Instead, Robert Bardo, who’d been obsessed with Rebecca for some time, pulled out a gun and shot her. Rebecca died within the hour.

While stalking was already a growing problem in America at that time, it was Rebecca’s tragic death, and the outcry that surrounded it, that led to the nation’s first anti-stalking laws. Listen to episode 24 to hear more about Rebecca’s story and the societal changes sparked by her murder. 

Show Notes for Episode 24!

Rebecca Schaeffer
CBS Photo Archive/Getty Images

Rebecca Schaeffer and Pam Dawber from ‘My Sister Sam’


“Your Biggest Fan,” 20/20 episode, April 2019

“Theresa Saldana: Actress and Attack Survivor Dies at 61,” New York Times, by William Grimes, June 8, 2016

“How Rebecca Schaeffer’s Horrific Murder Led to the Nation’s First Anti-Stalking Law,” Good Housekeeping, by Blake Bakkila, April 12, 2019

“Testimony Begins in Trial of Man Charged with Actress’ Murder,”  AP News, by Linda Deutsch, September 25, 1991

Wikipedia- My Sister Sam

“Suspect on Tape Tells of Actress’s Last Words,” Los Angeles Times, by Andrea Ford, October 22, 1991

Wikipedia– Robert John Bardo

“Stalking: Know It. Name It. Stop It.” CDC website, updated January 8, 2021

Promo for “My Sister Sam” with Pam & Rebecca

“Unsane” – SPOILERS for this film if you listen to our episode!!

Rose Mackenberg: First Female Ghostbuster

Who ya gonna call? Rose Mackenberg!

That’s right. Long before Peter Venkman and his crew showed up with their proton packs to fight the supernatural, there was Rose Mackenberg, Houdini’s top undercover spy in his war against crooked psychics and mediums.

Rose Mackenberg was described in a 1949  Hearst syndicate article as “perhaps the only woman ‘ghost-buster’ in the world.” In this episode, you’ll hear about the seance-gone-bad that essentially ended the friendship between Harry Houdini and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and escalated Houdini’s crusade against Spiritualism, the tactics used by the famed magician to expose psychic con artists, and the important role Rose Mackenberg played in that battle. We guarantee you’ll be fascinated by the story of this truly fearless female. 

Show Notes for Episode 23!

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and Harry Houdini, with their families/

Rose demonstrates how the ghostly hands trick works/

Rose demonstrating the table tipping trick/

Rose, a woman of many disguises/New York Times


“Overlooked No More: Rose Mackenberg: Houdini’s Secret ‘Ghost-Buster,’” New York Times, by Gavin Edwards, December 6, 2019

“For Harry Houdini, Seances and Spiritualism Were Just an Illusion,” Smithsonian Magazine, by Bryan Greene, October 28, 2021

Criminal Podcast, episode 175, The “Ghost Racket Crusade,” hosted by Phoebe Judge, interviewing Tony Wolf

“The Art and Crime of Illusion: Harry Houdini’s Assistants,” Saturday Evening Post

“Sir Arthur Conan Doyle,” PBS’s American Experience 

“10 Things You May Not Know About Harry Houdini,”, by Evan Andrews, updated August 22, 2018

“Houdini, Sir Doyle Do AC,” Atlantic City Weekly, by Tom Wilk, updated June 6, 2019

“Rose Mackenberg: Ghostbuster of Phantoms, Frauds, and Flimflam Men, Wednesday’s Women, by Sandy Levins, March 11, 2020

Wikipedia: Rose Mackenberg


Rebekah Raymer Book (featuring a fictional meeting between the main character and Harry Houdini)

Gary Oldman in (just a few!) of his diverse film roles

The Fox Sisters & The Origin of Spiritualism:

Honk & Cheryl Allison: A Goose, a Girl, and a Fairy Tale Ending

Near the start of the pandemic, amid lockdowns and the emotional toll of isolation, Cheryl Allison headed to the park one afternoon for a fitness break. Little did she know how her life would change because of a simple encounter that occurred that day …or that her new bestie would be a goose. 

In this special guest episode, Ashley and Candy speak with Cheryl Allison, an award-winning actress and filmmaker who thousands of Honk fans may know simply as Honk’s Mom.  

In an interview that manages to be both highly entertaining and also touching at times, Cheryl shares the story of her ‘unlikely friendship’ with a Toulouse goose she named Honk. Listeners will hear Cheryl share the story of their first meeting, anecdotes about their time together, her reflections on the legacy of this incredible animal, and so much more, including fascinating memories of her time on Broadway and in film. 

In the spirit of Valentines’ Day, your hosts are honored to share Cheryl and Honk’s message of love and hope. They know you will enjoy it just as much as they did!

Show Notes for Episode 22!

You can follow Cheryl & Honk’s continuing story on Facebook via

and Instagram via

Cheryl’s book about Honk can be purchased via
and the activity book can be found via

Cheryl’s personal website:

The video that started it all! Cheryl & Honk featured on the Dodo – June 14, 2020
“No Letting Go” – Starring Cheryl Allison

The video Candy & Ashley reference during the interview with Cheryl
More about Understudies & Swings!